Treatise 1        Treatise 3        Pillai Festivals/Gods

Origin & evolution of Pillai caste in India - Treatise 3

Indus civilization, Velir, Agasthiar, Aham Padiyar, Agam Udayar, Aruvalar [Dalits?] அறுவாளர் - அறுவாள் - அறுப்பவர் [MBCs, SCs] -கதிர் அறுப்பு in Indus Script?

Treatise 3: சிந்து சமவெளி நாகரிகமும் வேளிரும் - வெள்ளாளரும் - பிள்ளைமாரும் - அகஸ்தியர் - குட முனி - சோதனைக் குழாய் குழந்தை - துரோணர்
துவரம் பருப்பு - துவாரகா- GUJARAT is the NATIVE OF VELLALARS ?
article by Pasupati K Pillai 29 Aug 2009

Following is the Excerpts from Renowned Epigraphist Irawadham Mahadevan's August 2009 Thesis for Roja Muthiah Reasearch Library :
Sage Agasthyar is not Aryan - [my Question is he a Vellalar? No. He is a Dravidian - Indus Priestly class called Iyan - Iyer-Iyanmeer.]

Iravatham Mahadevan IAS speaks on Agasthya - the Kuda Muni
 

Today I got a Surprise Alert on Indus Script decipherment process by Iravatham Mahadevan IAS, on my Face Book wall post from www.harappa.com

That surprise gift of a link is meluhha-and-agastya.html

His pdf file is at meluhha_and_agastya_2009.pdf This is his continuing effort on deciphering the intriguing Indus script,sponsored by Roja Muthiah Research Library in Chennai and he is affiliated with the Tata Institute Indus script team.

I pray Mr. Irawatham Mahadevan Sir and Asko Parpola be given with "Sir" award by the British for a start and may be a "Nobel" if they can succeed in their effort sooner.

I read through the 18 page thesis on "Melakam" - Meluhaa - Melacha - and the "Jar" signs.

அ - is the 1 st alphabet in Tamil.
அகர முதல எழுத்தெல்லாம் ஆதி பகவன் முதற்றே உலகு - Thirukkural says.

Like that, I hope, Irawatham is right on his assumption as the Square symbol is
First in Indus script.

LORD SHIVA IS CALLED AS SQUARE LORD, LORD OF THE SQUARE - LORD OF AKAM

Thats why Lord Shiva is called as சதுரப் பெருமான் - in
திருவாசகம் அடைக்கலப் பத்து http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thisl/thisl1102.htm

சதுரம் மறைதான் - the 4 vedhas. The 4 corners are also related to vedhas, may be.
So the Melakam with 4 sides in which the High people lived, The Square symbol indicates
God - or the the God Symbol is taken as the First symbol.




In this above Table, Irawadham Mahadewan says the SQUARE sign as a RECTANGULAR one. How can one IAS officer make this kind of silly mistake? It is not RECTANGLE it is SQUARE - so my link of SHIVA with SQUARE and SATHURA and FIRST ALPHA of Indus Script may be considered.

சங்கநாதன் என்று விஷ்ணுவையும், சட்டநாதன் என்று சிவத்தையும் சூட்சுமப் பெயரில் குறிப்பிடுவார்கள்.சட்டநாத ரூபம் அகந்தையை அடக்கவல்லது. பணிவைத் தந்து பரந்த நோக்கை உருவாக்குவது. http://chithargal.blogspot.com/
சதுரப் பெருமான்
சதுரம் என்றால் நான்கு மூலைகள் கொண்டது.
அது போல நான் மறைகளுக்கு தலைவன் சிவன்
சதுரம் மறைதான்

Also the sign 284 clearly says it is a நாற்சந்தி - 4 Square - which is a famous Architechtural feature of Tamil Life Style, the 4 ratha veethis - North South East West Car Streets. And commoners are usually found on streets or along both sides of streets. So it may indicate the houses of the streets.
2001 = public 4 crossing road. 2579 = Armed forces people street. 2522 = Fighters, Guards street.
[or may be the variation while creating the seals]

Even in Today's Tamil writings, many Tamils start with
"u" "உ" - the pillaiyar suli.
Sage Agasthya wrote Tamil grammer as told by son of Lord Shiva, the Ganeshji.

He wrote it with his broken "thantham" the tusk of the pillaiyar.
So, I fervently think the Sathuram - Meluhham - Melakam - is all related.

Mekku Theru, Kilakku theru - still common in Tamil Street Naming System.


PAGE 13 of the same file extracts :- GUJRAT is the NATIVE OF VELLALARS ?
Kapilar, the 14 poet, narrates that fortynine generations’ earlier, an ancestor of the Velir ruled over Tuvarai, a city surrounded by soaring bronze walls. Kapilar also records that the Velir arose in the tatavu of a ‘northern sage’.

My comments:-
The above verses of the Kapilar can be interpreted in 2 ways.
1. The "Northern Sage" used his Gamandal - to give the BOON as a child
2. or the "Northern Sage" or the Aryan Rishi - Fair Color wala - had intimate sex with Dravidian Women - who still wants FAIR colour babies. So the SEXUAL relations may be told as "தடவு - தடவுதல்" - also refer the record of Kerala Nair women are sexually enjoyed by the Namboothiris.

The துவர - துவரம் பருப்பு - துவாரகா - Gujarat link is very interesting.
Thuvar Dal is still most produced in Gujarat thats why it got that name.

As I already indicated in "Who are Pillais" and the same told by Vedhasalam Pillai alias Maraimalai adigal also : This is corroborated in History now authorized by the eminent epigraphist : Sir. Dr. Irawatham Mahadevan.

I give his own words in red colour here : - page 9 of the pdf file above.
Those who served as palace or temple attendants were known as follows:

(e.g.) aka-tt-atimai , aka-t-tontar, aka-mp-atiyar etc., (Tamil Lexicon).


அகம் பாடியர் - அகம் உடையர் - this pillai group is also still available in tamil country as the elite ruling class people Thevar people who inter marry with Pillaimar. Aham Udaiya Pillais.

Agasthayar a Velir? a Vellala?
The Thesis by Irawatham Mahadevan automatically asserts that either the Agasthiyar is a Velir or he is a Dravidan Iyer - Brahmin - and the relationship between these to communities are always cordial and inclusive.

"the Old Tamil legends (who led the southern migration of the Velir and other tribes from Dvaraka in the Gujarat region to the southern peninsula)"...

May be the Aryans, by the Fair Colour advantage might have seeped into the "Top class" of the Dravidians and Velirs, thereby bringing a fair amount of people their fair skin.

The lower class of those Dravidians, still is more darker as we can observe even now.

Irawatham Mahadevan sir further states that, at page 16,

4.11 Agastya and the Southern migration of the Velir

The story of the southern migration of the Velir from Dvaraka under the leadership
of Agastya is narrated by Naccinarkkiniyar in his commentary on Tolkappiyam
(payiram ; Porul.34). According to this legend, the gods congregated on Mount Meru
as a result of which the earth tilted, lowering Meru and raising the southern quarter.
The gods thereupon decided that Agastya was the best person to remedy this situation
and requested him to proceed to the South. Agastya agreed and, on his way, visited
‘Tuvarapati’ (Dvaraka) and led the descendants of netu-muti-annal (Visnu or Krsna)
including ‘eighteen kings, eighteen families of the Velir and the Aruvalar’ to the
south, where they settled down ‘clearing the forests and cultivating the land’.

My Notes: - I think the Velir means the present day Vellalars

அறுவாளர் - அறுவாள் - அறுப்பவர் -அறுப்பு
Aruvalars means the crop cutters - the sambavars may be - the SC/STs who later on became the Aaru Naatu Vellalars along the Dravidian Social Ladder System [promoted by self] like the today's Illathu Pillaimars who were once upon a time SC/STs [even now at Kerala as Eelavas].

Ref:1

The Aruvalar occupied the region between the Palar and Pennai and are described as rulers of the region, until Karikala defeated them as is mentioned clearly in Pattinappalm.
http://www.indianetzone.com/22/tribes_sangam_period_india.htm

Ref 2:
The Tondamandalam proper was called Aruva-Nadu, the northern portion of which dominated by Tirupati was apparently known Aruva-vada-talai. The people were also called Aruvalar, people with the
bill-hook. [அறுவாள்]The two descriptions therefore of these people as Tondaiyar and Aruvalar are descriptions based the one upon the totem of the tribe, the creeper Tondi; and the other a professional name from the scythe which must have been their weapon as cattleherds. We have pointed out already that the whole border land of the Tamils beyond this was occupied by a race of people known to them by the generic name http://chestofbooks.com/history/india/South-India-Culture/


Clearing the Forest and Cultivating the Land automatically calls for Pillaivals, Karkathars and Pillaimars - Kaviyarasu Kamban emphatically says this IN "Thirukkai Vazhakku" too.

Again I quote from Irawadham Mahadevan sir:- Black Font is my notes.

"The sage himself finally settled down on the Potiyil hill "
[the Thamirabarni - Papanasam foot hills - Pothigai Adi it is called]


"The fact of Agastya’s leadership
of the Velir clan rules out the possibility that he was even in origin an Aryan sage. "

[Then, Agasthayar is also a Velir? a Vellala? or the Dravidian Iyer? Iyanmeer?]

The Ventar-Velir-Velalar groups constituted the ruling and land-owning classes in
the Tamil country since the beginning of recorded history and betray no trace
whatever of an Indo-Aryan linguistic ancestry.

So, What Vedachalam Pillai alias Maraimalai Adigal was shouting all these years and what Poorna Lingam Pillai was stating all these years, what Vaiyapuri Pillai was telling all these years, finally proved by Irawadham Mahadewan sir himself.

Thanks sir. For giving what the Tamils are due for.
But that doesn't in any rate reduce Iyers, Brahmins contribution to Indian Society.

ThirunGyana Sambandhar, Sundarar is an example.
If Agasthyar is an Iyer, but elevated Tamil, We all will worship him!
U.Ve. Saminatha Iyer is celebrated as Thamizh Thatha!
Along those lines, we all admire Sir. Irawadham Mahadevan also.

I wish him all the Best, all the Luck that before his life time he should see the Indus Script fully understood, fully deciphered and honored also of course with my another favorite Asko Parpola.

That Day Will Be a Celebration for All Tamils of the World, for all South Indians of the World, for Caldwell, for Heras and so many other Tamil Lovers!

TEST TUBE BABY

 அகஸ்தியர் - குட முனி - சோதனைக் குழாய் குழந்தை - துரோணர் -கௌரவர்கள்- தாளி அடக்கம் - தாளியில் வயதானாலும் இறப்பு வராது சுருங்கி - குறுகி போன முதியவர்களை வைத்து அடக்கம் செய்யும் முறை

In those Times, the old Tamil People from Harappa to Tamilnadu used to bury the aged people in sand drums (மண் தாளி). Even The Hindu reported such a finding with a feeding plate for the DWARF [imagine the dwarf of the Lord of the Rings movie, people used to live 300, 400 years then - so their body size dwarfed and they were buried with small amount of food]

The term "tata" "ததா" is also attested in this sense in Tamil literature (twice in Nacciyar Tirumoli : 9.6). Once the meaning of tatavu (tata) ‘jar’ is understood, it follows that the reference in Puram 201 must be to Agastya, the ‘jar born’ sage par excellence.  U.V. Swaminathaiyar’s identification of the ‘northern sage’ with ‘Campu muni’ (not known to Old Tamil tradition) from late sources is unconvincing. I have attempted to
set the record straight by identifying the ‘northern sage’ in Puram 201 with Agastya, tatavu with his celebrated ‘water-pitcher’ and tuvarai with Dvaraka of the Gujarat region (Mahadevan 1986).

In my humble opinion, the "ததா" word came from sanskrit thathaSthu - ததாஸ்து - means when the Rishi gives some curse or boon to their subjects, they throw water from the ததா - the Jar and say ததாஸ்து - "அப்படியே ஆவதாக" - ததாஸ்து!!! அப்படியே ஆகட்டும்!!!

The JAR must have got its name from Old Tamil தடா - means you have to do தடவுதல் - to create the JAR or any earthen articles - esp. on the pot wheels.

Anyhow, this JAR is used by Tamils for storage of many different wares, rituals like the "Ring Finding Ceremony in the Marriage", including after death ritual also. The use of JAR for birth can be compared with modern times TEST TUBE babies.

We all know that the men are made in the Uterus - which is called as a குடம் - நீர் குடம்
in Tamil. During birth, some people are born with நீர் குடம் - which bursts before the child is born, which makes the birth difficult. May be the Sage Agasthya is born with a நீர் குடம்?

Or may be it is like some Vedic Times - Indus Times women had weak uterus or unable to bear child. So they needed a TEST TUBE - so in those days they used the ubiquitous Indus Jar for storing the Foetus - as in the case of Dronacharya.

 4.8 ‘Jar –born’ myths in the Northern Tradition
The symbolism of ‘water-pitcher’ has always been closely associated with priestly ritual.
The legend of ‘jar-born’ sages is very ancient and is even found in the R·gveda (7.33.10-11). There it is said that Vasistha and Agastya were generated by Varuna and Mitra in a ‘sacred pitcher’ or ‘water-jar used in sacrifice’. Agastya is especially known as the ‘jar-born’ sage (kumbha-yoni, kuta-muni etc.). கமண்டலம் கூட ஒரு குடம் தானே? - The Gamand's were used in giving the CURSE or BOON of the yogic powers with the utterance ததாஸ்து - "அப்படியே ஆவதாக".
 
The myth of miraculous birth from jars was shared by priestly as well as royal families. Drona, the priest-warrior, was generated in a ‘wooden trough’ by Bharadvaja(Mbh.) The kauravas were born from pots filled with clarified butter in which Gandhari’s foetus was stored (Mbh.)

The Pallavas of Kanchi belonging to the Bharadvaja gotra and claiming Drona to be
one of their remote ancestors, traced their descent from a water-pitcher (pattra-
skhalita- vrttinam, Pallankoyil Plates, ca.6th cent. CE). According to tradition, the
Chalukyas were so-called as the dynasty sprang from a suluka ‘water-pot ’
(Vikramanka-caritra I.318.8)

My Comments for above: The Term Skhalita -ஸ்கலிதம் means ejection of sperms. பத்திர - means document - பாத்திர - means JAR - Kudam - so if it is பத்திர - then he must be son of document writer. [!!!]

This is the DIFFICULTY of TAMIL - a small aa- variation பத்திர -  பாத்திர can change the HISTORY !!!

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